Episode 14

Nutrition for Feels, not Looks with Shannon Woodcock

In this special in-between-seasons episode of No Shame in the Home Game, Lacey and Sara welcome Shannon Woodcock, a functional nutritional therapy practitioner. The conversation focuses on caring for how our bodies feel rather than look, debunking common nutritional myths, and advocating for balanced, nutrient-rich diets. Shannon shares her journey into the nutrition field, the importance of listening to your body, and provides practical tips for increasing protein and fiber intake. The episode encourages listeners to take small steps towards improving their health, emphasizing that even minor changes can make a significant impact.

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Transcript
Lacey:

Welcome to No Shame in the Home Game, the podcast that cares

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how your home feels, not looks.

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I'm your co host Lacey, who's

just glad we're all here today.

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A little bit of behind the scenes.

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We had some technical

difficulties, but we're here.

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We're doing it right, Sara, my co host.

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Sara: I always say that one of the biggest

things I've learned as a mom is pivoting.

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And I feel like here right now, all

three of us are mothers and we just,

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we're like, yep, let's try this.

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Let's try this.

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We just kept going.

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And sometimes in life.

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That's all you can do.

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And we pivoted until we all ended

up in the same place with audio.

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So thank you to our guest expert, Shannon.

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Thank you for your patience.

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Thank you for showing up today.

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Please tell our audience.

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Hello.

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a little bit about yourself,

where you are, whatever you feel

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like sharing today, we're pretty

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Shannon: casual.

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Awesome.

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Hi, thank you for having me.

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My name is Shannon Woodcock and

I'm a functional nutritional

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therapy practitioner.

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It's like a big long title.

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I have a practice here in Cambridge,

New York, and that's where I'm hanging

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out right now is at my office space.

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I work predominantly with women, mostly

with metabolic and digestive health.

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Although I've had, clients from

all sorts of walks of life, a whole

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little core cohort of children with

eczema is kind of another random

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area that I've worked a lot with.

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children with gluten sensitivities

and things like that.

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So I've got a lot of different

niches, but predominantly

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metabolic and digestive health and

predominantly working with women.

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yeah, that's how, that's

the backbone of my practice.

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I know you were curious how I got here.

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I really started down this path

because I was having my own horrendous

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health issues about a decade ago now.

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that really sent me down a spiral of not

being able to get the help that I needed.

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This is like a story that's becoming

really common in my practice where, women

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are seeking help from their doctors.

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their doctors do care, but they

don't have the tools or they're

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sending them immediately into a

field with a lot of specialists.

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And those specialists are so hyper

focused on individual parts of the

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body that they don't ever get that

support looking at the whole system.

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And so that was sort of the same case

with me as I was having some health

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issues, and, it really lit a fire under

my butt to go back to school and try to

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figure out what was going on in my body

and how I could better support it on a

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more, practical level than just a lot of

either medications and or supplements.

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I felt like there was some lifestyle

things that were getting overlooked.

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I just didn't know what

they were at the time.

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And, I'm a lot wiser.

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I have a lot more information

on my own body now, and it's

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really fun to help other people

discover that about themselves.

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Lacey: Quick question from me.

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So I always get very confused in

like nutritionist, dietician, So

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where do you fit in all those titles?

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Shannon: That's an awesome question.

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So registered dietician, I would

say is your more traditional

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sort schooling approach.

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that dietitians have their four

year bachelor degrees in dietetics.

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Some of them go on to

have a master's degree.

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And, many states have a licensing

program, where dietitians can

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take their licensure state testing

and be licensed in that state.

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they're able to accept

insurance and things like that.

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And dieticians often go on, not all of

them, but many go on, you are a dietician

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if you're working in a hospital and

setting meal plans for patients and,

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nursing homes and things like that.

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so that was like the initial certification

that you could get in dietetics.

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And then, over the years.

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We've seen a need for

different types of nutrition.

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And so now all these other

nutrition professionals emerge.

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So my, program is not a licensed program.

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It's a certifying program.

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And so it's a, it has

a different background.

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the education is not as extensive and

it's more focused on the body and the

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whole body and looking at, balance

and systems as a whole, rather than,

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Learning to like count calories and,

real specific measurements around

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what, how much of this you need

and micronutrients, macronutrients.

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So I would imagine that if I sat down with

a registered dietitian, who isn't running

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their own private practice, that we

actually do a lot of very similar things.

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however, the background and our education

is just a little bit different, but

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yeah, there's a lot, there's like

kind of a can of worms of different

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certifying agencies popping out there.

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Folks who have graduated with my

certification are doing more like

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health coaching, where some have gone

on to specialize in, very specific

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types of nutrition, such as oncology

nutrition So yeah, it's a big broad

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field with a huge, big, net of things,

like everyone's running their own thing.

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Lacey: Awesome.

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Thank you.

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Sara: Okay.

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This is where I get really excited.

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I want to say how I met Shannon and then

I want to say how I came to understand

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her journey and I'll say it in my own

words and then Shannon gets to correct me.

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So first of all we met we're both in

upstate New York and we had a mutual

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connection who is my son's music

teacher, my drumming teacher, and

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one day I'd known Chelsea for years

one day out of the blue she just says

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I know somebody else from Nebraska.

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it was so funny because it

wasn't like she just met you.

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It was just all of a sudden

she plucked it from the tree.

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and so I reached out to Shannon

and said, we had this connection.

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So we met up for coffee and we

could have talked all day, but we

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both had things we had to get to.

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And I mean, it was instantly just.

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Okay.

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We're definitely going to talk again.

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And so that is our connection as we

both grew up in the same city, but we're

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both now living in upstate New York.

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And what I heard from your journey What

I heard was you had this health journey.

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It was Lyme's right?

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That

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Shannon: was a component

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Sara: to it.

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Yeah.

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Lyme's.

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Okay.

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And your health.

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it changed because of what was going

on and you got to this point and you

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weren't feeling like you were before.

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You didn't feel great.

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And like you said, you started down

that rabbit hole specialists who are

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looking at things through their own

little lens, but you kept going no,

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there's gotta be a different way.

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Like I'm not feeling good.

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And I know I've been there too,

where I'm looking at doctors

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going, I don't feel good.

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And what you're telling me is

only perpetuating the problem.

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It's not actually making things better.

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So what I heard is you took it into

your own control to go, what can I do?

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And then you started learning more about

nutrition and you went down this path.

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And what you told me was you

at first did this for yourself.

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To absolutely heal yourself.

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And then you saw this opportunity

of oh, other people could benefit

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from this, which I thought was

just so beautiful because that

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shows that voyage of discovery of.

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I need this for me.

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And oh, it can also help other people,

which is actually how I came to the

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work I'm doing, and it's so similar

when you're talking about that

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nuanced, how specialists or even the

dieticians, they might count calories

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and look very, very lasered in right.

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And sometimes when people

try to understand my work and

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they automatically think of.

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organizers.

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And I'm like, well, that's part of it.

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we're not going to discount that, but

if we're only looking at something like

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through a very specific, very tight lens

and you're not zooming out and looking

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at the whole home as an organization,

you're not seeing how it's all working

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together and what's influencing.

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And that's why I got so excited when we

were talking, cause you were saying all

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these things about nutrition that Just

to make darn sense, like I mentioned

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to you that my son's a vegetarian and

then you were talking about how, I

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think what you said was if there's not

enough protein, then that can actually

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influence your anxiety and your emotions.

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And I was like, Oh my gosh, I, it

makes sense, but I hadn't heard, I

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didn't know that it wasn't on my radar.

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So I'm immediately like, okay,

how do I up my son's protein?

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and it's just to me, it's one of those

aha, where it makes so much sense.

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I don't know, Lacey, do you feel

like this where you're just like,

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wait, nutrition, like we all eat

and it's in every cell in our body.

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Oh, yeah, like this is the cornerstone.

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Lacey: and I have a very complicated

relationship with food, and

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I think a lot of people do.

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my biggest frustration has been that

all of the diet recommendations don't

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take into account like actually living

your life and I would say in the past.

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Six months is the first time that I've

been able to actually really make these

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solid changes because instead of focusing

on that end goal, I'm focusing on, okay,

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how can I make this work in my life?

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and that's been a big change for me.

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I found this, dietician who's on

TikTok, but she had such a good

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way of explaining intuitive eating,

because that's something I've always

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been trying and her explanation

of it actually made sense to me.

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And because of that, and then me

learning, but part of my problem

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is I've never trusted my body.

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So How can I listen to it to

then eat the right things?

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No one was ever concerned about that.

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So there's just all these little

things that have a really big impact

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on what we eat, when and how that.

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don't get addressed.

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We'll just say that.

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Shannon: Yeah, absolutely.

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I can think of one client in particular

who she said to me at a certain point

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in our work together, she said, Oh my

gosh, all these years I've had this

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view that my body is working against

me and that I am, mistreating my body.

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And now I realize it's

the other way around.

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I'm actually actively working against my

body with every decision that I make, what

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I'm putting into it and how I am using it.

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And I'm realizing that my body was

never doing, it was, my body was

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just responding to what I was doing.

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Not, it's not its own separate

entity with a mind of its own.

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That is Doing its own thing over here.

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And you're trying to do something

totally different and it's not working.

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It's that if you're not actively seeking

out ways to enhance your nutrient quality

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or the amount of nutrition that you're

getting and whatnot, your body just

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can't, doesn't have the programming.

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It doesn't have the raw materials

to do what you're asking it to do.

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And then it's not working properly.

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So I love that.

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I love intuitive nutrition.

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I love people just like

listening to their bodies.

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And what is your body asking you?

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And sometimes we do need a little

guidance for what is our body asking?

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It's saying something.

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We just don't know what it is right away.

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We didn't necessarily grow up in a

culture of listening to our bodies.

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We've really grown up in a culture of

listening to experts, quote unquote,

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I'm in that category of people.

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And I'm so Conscious of that

whatever I say to people, that they

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actually are taking it home and

listening to what I'm telling them,

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and really, ultimately, I actually

want them to listen to themselves.

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What's their body saying, not what

am I telling you your body's saying.

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Lacey: Yeah, and I have PCOS,

and so my body was telling me.

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To eat carbs, but everyone's like,

no, you're not supposed to do that.

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And so I'm like, my body is wrong.

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And then I actually really like carbs.

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And so then I'm just suffering.

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And then you can only suffer for so long.

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And it's just such a cycle of.

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Shame that, I have a lot of willpower,

but it can only last for so long.

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Shannon: Yeah, and I always tell people,

I'm like, willpower is a muscle and it has

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to be exercised, but on that same note,

you can only use your muscles for so long,

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and so we have to actually learn really

solid, habits in the kitchen so that we

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don't have to use that muscle so much.

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Like any one muscle on your body

does not want to get used all day.

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No one would want to stand and

do calf raises all day long.

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Cause it would get very

tiring, very quick.

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Your calves would be cramping up

by nighttime and you would totally

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lose your ability to stand there.

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So willpower is the same way.

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It's just a muscle and we have to

exercise it to some extent, but we

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also need to like have tools for not

having to use that muscle so much.

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Sara: and I think this is such a

beautiful, like it just all came

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together of why I felt like you were

such a perfect expert to bring on

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because no shame in the home game.

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We don't care how your house looks.

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We care how it feels to

you and everyone in it.

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And it's not a one size fits all and you

get to listen to your own pain points.

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That's when I work with clients,

one on one or on the podcast, it's

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tell me where it doesn't feel good.

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don't tell me what you think society

wants your house to look like.

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Tell me what doesn't feel good.

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And that's when you and I were

talking, that's what was clicking

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for me is no, like, you don't

care how your client's body looks.

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You care.

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How does your client feel?

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Do you feel the way you want to

when you wake up in the morning

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and get through the day, right?

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And it's like looking at that,

pinpointing that problem, looking at

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the fundamental elements, looking at

you as a total system and realizing

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it's not a one size fits all.

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What one person needs is going to be

different from what another person needs,

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depending on their own, what they do

in a day or how their body's, made up.

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everyone's got different needs, right?

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Shannon: Yeah.

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I don't think that one size fits all is

appropriate for anything really in life.

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but I do, think there's

some basics of places.

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Like I always tell people when

I do group programs, I'm like

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here, this is a starting point.

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here's 10 people in one room together.

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And I'm trying my best

to individualize my.

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information.

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So let's all start with this one place.

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but understand that my expectation is that

you're going to go home and tweak this.

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You're going to listen to your body.

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You're going to tap in to

what your body's telling you.

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and I give them tools for doing

that so that they can say Oh wow,

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like this is where I started.

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And that is better than where

I was feeling before, but I'm

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still kind of extra hungry.

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What's wrong on this plate?

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I'm picturing this plate that I

often show people where like this is

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starting points for how much protein

how many vegetables how much starch But

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everyone's really different, I might

highlight in the room that there's One

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woman who's postmenopausal her plate

might actually feel better, slightly

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tweaked than this woman who's 20

years old and is expending a lot more

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energy metabolically just because of

her age and she's still in a muscle

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building stage, not a muscle loss stage.

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She's just burning more

calories throughout the day.

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Her needs are going to be a little

different based on this one plate.

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Then this woman who's, 10 years post

menopause, has really low estrogen

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and progesterone and whatnot.

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And, those are going to look different,

but you can start with the same

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picture, but then they have to work.

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And then they also have different goals.

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One might get headaches

and the other one has.

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cramping at night or some constipation,

like that changes what you need to

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put on your plate all of a sudden.

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and some people do have to be more

careful about certain types of

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macronutrients or even micronutrients,

based on their physiological needs.

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And that's really hard to speak to

a whole audience in that regard.

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because everyone's so unique.

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Sara: Can you actually, I hear

macro and micronutrients often.

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Shannon: Yeah.

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Sara: Is there like a short.

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Explanation blurb, or does

that go deep dive real quickly?

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Shannon: No, I can say so macronutrients

are our three main nutrients.

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We eat carbohydrates, proteins and fats.

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There's just three of them.

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That's really easy.

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Micronutrients are all those

vitamins and minerals that

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we get in the phytonutrients.

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I would put in that category.

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And so all the things that we're getting

from when we digest those foods, those

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are breaking down into micronutrients,

the smaller particles from the

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carbohydrates, the proteins and the fats.

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Sara: when I thought about bringing

you on, I thought about, okay,

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let's help some of our listeners.

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I'm going to tell you a little bit

about, what we're doing in this day to

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day, and both you and I are the same in

the approach of we're not interested in

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overwhelming or not interested in telling

people here's 10 things like that's my

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whole thing with like magazine blurbs

it's do these 10 things in your life

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will be perfect and don't tell me to

do 10 things I'm immediately like, no.

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You had an idea of what one of

the common things that you hear

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often from women about food.

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And if you'd like to share

what that is with our audience.

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Shannon: Yeah.

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my goal for everyone I work with is

to help them increase their vitality.

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And I think we can only do so by

Putting more nutrition into our body.

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and that looks different

again for everybody.

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Like we just said, one of the common

things that I see people doing that

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I think is to their detriment is and

I'll speak to women, cause again,

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that's my predominant audience

skipping meals, on a regular basis.

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I see coffee becoming a

substitute for breakfast.

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A deadline becoming a substitute for

lunch and, whatever comes up for dinner

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is sometimes amazing, sometimes not,

and they may only get that one meal

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with some random snacks in the day.

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And, this is so basic, but I had to

go back to school to understand this.

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every single thing that happens in

your body is nutrient dependent, every

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chemical and enzymatic reaction that

happens, all the precursors to your

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hormones, all of the precursors to

your neurotransmitters, all of your

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digestive juices are built from nutrients.

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So if you've taken off.

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Two of those meals and now you only have

one that better be like the best meal

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that you could ever create for anyone.

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And I don't even know

what that would look like.

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I don't know.

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You're just drinking organ meats

out of a straw or something, but you

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really have to eat a lot of food and

a variety of food for your nutrients.

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So as you, but don't become

deficient in anything.

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and I also know I'll sometimes

have women say Oh, but I read

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about intermittent Fasting

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And I'm not knocking any of those things.

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there are some serious health benefits

to fasting appropriately, but first I

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think we need a foundation of eating

really well before we can incorporate

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these other, lifestyle hacks that

might get us some other benefits.

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It's like you can't fast

if you're not eating.

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so that's my first thing is I look

at food journals all the time and

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people are just not eating a meal

period, much plus a good meal.

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Don't do that.

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Don't skip a meal.

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Sara: I know from my upbringing I can

remember so distinctly in middle school

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and we were, me and my girlfriends

were obsessed with counting fat.

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And I remember going over to

this girl's house and it was

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like two in the afternoon.

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She's I've had zero fat today.

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I had skim milk and then

like some sugary cereal.

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No fat.

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And I just I think back to that

moment of how, focusing on that

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one thing and then how our bodies

were developing and changing.

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And we were running around

the neighborhood all day long.

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Cause it was summertime.

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And we weren't like giving our bodies.

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What they need.

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it's just like you said, it's a signal

for neurotransmitters, like how we were

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feeling emotionally, like everything.

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And we were hurting ourselves thinking we

were doing the best by not doing the fat.

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there's so much deprogramming.

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there's some kind of inverse

success at starving yourself.

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oh, if you didn't eat lunch,

then like somehow you won

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some kind of imaginary point.

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I don't know what that was.

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I don't know.

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is this resonating with either of you,

like hearing those messages from society

375

:

growing up But then, on the other hand,

what gets pushed in our faces by media

376

:

is often the least nutritious, And I

know our target, our audience, most

377

:

of our audience is probably going,

that sounds great, but I work, I have

378

:

kids, I'm doing this, I'm going here,

I'm going ramping up into summertime.

379

:

Yeah.

380

:

So many people on threads are just

saying, I want nothing to do with cooking.

381

:

I don't want a meal plan.

382

:

It's warm out.

383

:

I don't want to, there's

a lot of pushback.

384

:

Cause I think in the fall and the winter

we're at home, it's darker earlier.

385

:

Like we can wrap around the idea of

making like a big wholesome meal.

386

:

So what would these target

audience of your women?

387

:

And encouraging them to

eat these nutritious meals.

388

:

What are some easier nutritious meals that

come to mind that you'd like to recommend?

389

:

Shannon: Yeah, that's a good question.

390

:

This has been my experience.

391

:

I actually think the hardest

thing, most of us can come by

392

:

carbohydrates pretty easily.

393

:

We can find, could we make improvements

to the carbohydrates we're eating?

394

:

Definitely.

395

:

I actually find that protein is

the hardest for anyone to take in,

396

:

because you can't eat raw meat.

397

:

you shouldn't probably eat raw meat.

398

:

maybe fish, we could argue that there's

some benefits of sushi or whatnot.

399

:

so for a lot of people, and a lot of

people are really timid in the kitchen.

400

:

To cook proteins.

401

:

So I'll see people go okay, I

totally understand that I need

402

:

foods that are high in protein.

403

:

And that doesn't have to just be animal

products, but plant based proteins

404

:

often need preparation as well.

405

:

Your beans and your legumes,

like they need some preparation.

406

:

and they just don't

make the time for that.

407

:

So I would say if anything, focus on.

408

:

Your protein and focus on how you're

going to create enough of that for a

409

:

game plan for a week because the other

things you're going to squeeze in there.

410

:

You can eat your red peppers raw, whether

you have time to cook them or not.

411

:

And we do a lot in the summer.

412

:

We call them like bird dinners where we

like put, we have a big burger Cutting

413

:

board and I'm just throwing some fats in

the way of nuts and seeds and I'm throwing

414

:

some chopped vegetables because we come

home at the end of the day and then it's

415

:

what's going to be the protein on there?

416

:

Because I know that's so

important for so many people.

417

:

And so these are the

things that I like to do.

418

:

I like to think of batch cooking,

when it comes to protein.

419

:

I really, I do love red meat.

420

:

I'm like a big steak fan.

421

:

And so I might cook, if we're going to

grill steaks on a Sunday night, I might

422

:

grill as much as three extra large steaks.

423

:

Like to just be able to slice them now

and have them the next night and throw

424

:

them on the bird dinner tray cold,

or throw them on a salad for lunch,

425

:

or actually I like to reheat them and

have them with eggs in the morning too.

426

:

So same thing with chicken

breasts, same thing with pork.

427

:

I just always think I had actually had

a client in one of my restart classes.

428

:

I loved the way she said this.

429

:

She said, anything.

430

:

That you can do now is like giving

a gift to your future self, so she

431

:

said onions are terrible to chop.

432

:

So every time she chops an onion, she

chops to knowing that she's going to need

433

:

an onion later in the week at some point.

434

:

And I just loved that image of

yeah, I'm doing this for myself.

435

:

And I do remind myself

of that all the time.

436

:

I ended up in this position,

but it doesn't mean I have

437

:

this like culinary expertise.

438

:

I just officially bought myself my

first really nice knife and it's making

439

:

such a big difference in the kitchen.

440

:

but I'm not an expert chef and my

meals don't always look beautiful.

441

:

They're not always Instagram worthy.

442

:

and, just making sure I say to

myself, okay, if I eat this lunch,

443

:

what it means to me is that when my

kids Get home from school or they

444

:

get home from camp or whatever's

going on in your summer schedule.

445

:

I actually have energy

to hang out with my kids.

446

:

I have energy to go out

and kick a soccer ball.

447

:

I have energy to take them swimming.

448

:

I have energy to like, just.

449

:

sit with them and go over their

day where if I don't eat that

450

:

lunch, I don't have that energy.

451

:

I'm a little irritable.

452

:

They're going to come home and I'm

going to feel rushed to get dinner

453

:

cause I'm hungry and I don't have

time to just unwind with them.

454

:

And so I say those things to them.

455

:

Myself often when I'm like, Oh, I could

just sit here on the computer and work

456

:

a little longer, or I could get up and

make a meal if I'm working at home, or

457

:

I could get up and eat the meal that

I brought with me to work or whatever.

458

:

So I think it's like changing that

dialogue with ourselves and not saying

459

:

like, Oh, I'm so busy I can't make a.

460

:

Breakfast.

461

:

It's I'm so busy.

462

:

I need this breakfast to nourish

my body so that I can continue

463

:

to be busy successfully.

464

:

because there's a difference between being

busy and being stressed out and busy.

465

:

And I know that a lack of nutrients

will certainly make me feel that

466

:

frazzled busy state, where you're

like overwhelmed with the busyness

467

:

rather than just embracing it.

468

:

And so for me, having a meal is a big.

469

:

game changer.

470

:

Lacey: I agree about protein, but I

think the other thing that I always hear,

471

:

you need to have a lot of, and I always

feel like I'm falling short is fiber.

472

:

Do you have any suggestions

like that for fiber, like things

473

:

you can batch or that type of

474

:

Shannon: That's a great question because,

I always say like protein and fiber for

475

:

so many of my clients are like a gut.

476

:

We're talking gut health and

we're talking metabolic health.

477

:

We need both of those.

478

:

I picture a plate and I picture

that at least half of my

479

:

plate has vegetables on it.

480

:

That is a crap ton of

vegetables, by the way.

481

:

Most people aren't even getting

that over the course of a day.

482

:

but vegetables have a

lot of fiber in them.

483

:

having some whole grains, beans

and legumes are phenomenal

484

:

for, getting enough fiber.

485

:

and so I always think of okay, do

I have enough fiber at each meal?

486

:

avocados are an awesome,

quick, go to high fiber meal.

487

:

Raspberries are an

awesome high fiber, food.

488

:

I like to do like fresh ground

flax seed and I like my favorite

489

:

snack is banana with some nut

butter and fresh ground flax seeds.

490

:

It's one of my favorite little.

491

:

Quick go to snacks that I like to eat,

but I'll put fresh ground flaxseed on

492

:

like my yogurts it just tastes so yummy.

493

:

if I'm doing some baking or anything

like that, I'll often use, oat bran or

494

:

wheat bran or something to, sometimes

I add psyllium husk, sometimes I add

495

:

sun fiber, sometimes I add fibers into

muffins or things that I know that

496

:

we're going to have on hand for a while.

497

:

yeah, and just picking whole

grains over processed foods.

498

:

and leaving the skins on your

vegetables, like sometimes we

499

:

peel the heck out of everything.

500

:

sometimes that's warranted because

there might be germs and whatnot

501

:

from the grocery store, depending

on where you're getting them.

502

:

But I also leave the skins on all

my potatoes and sweet potatoes

503

:

and my beets and things like that,

just to up the fiber a little bit.

504

:

Not everybody does well with

those fibers, by the way.

505

:

So it's if that makes you uncomfortable,

peeling the skins can help.

506

:

If you don't digest them well, but,

but yeah, we really need women.

507

:

It's like a recommendation.

508

:

We're looking at like 25 grams at

least, every day, which, as you break

509

:

that down, I think, okay, how can I get

10 grams at each meal, give or take.

510

:

Sara: does the preparation

change the fiber or nutrient?

511

:

let's say raw broccoli versus,

I like to roast my broccoli.

512

:

Am I losing anything there?

513

:

Shannon: Yeah, you are.

514

:

cooking and heating things can,

degrade some of the nutrients.

515

:

I will often encourage people

to just, like, change it up.

516

:

But, because in some cases it makes

the nutrients more bioavailable.

517

:

It's like a kind of this catch 22.

518

:

Um, some foods have a

lot of water soluble.

519

:

nutrients.

520

:

boiling them, you're going to lose

the nutrients through the boil.

521

:

usually as lightly prepared as

possible, but that being said,

522

:

I love roasting vegetables.

523

:

so I do a lot of roasted

vegetables at the end of the day.

524

:

I just want you to like the

food that you're eating.

525

:

And so I always say First, like, get

your bases covered, make sure you're

526

:

eating a nice nutrient dense meal, cook

it the way that makes you the happiest

527

:

and makes it taste the best, because

then you're going to eat more of it.

528

:

when you're doing all of those things

really well and really solidly,

529

:

then we can, go in and be like, Wow.

530

:

You still seem pretty

deficient in vitamin C.

531

:

let's look at some of the places where,

cooking that broccoli might take away

532

:

some of that vitamin C or boiling the

broccoli might, damage some of that.

533

:

Then we can get nitpicky

about where you're doing that.

534

:

But first just make sure

you're getting the broccoli.

535

:

and then, you're getting it in a way

that your body like craves and enjoys.

536

:

so yeah, there's different things and

there's other tricks we can use to I like

537

:

to take those brassicas and squeeze lemon

juice over top of a lot of my dark leafy

538

:

greens and, broccoli and things like that

to help with the nutrient absorption.

539

:

So there's ways we can also enhance,

the absorption of some of those foods,

540

:

but, cooking can be detrimental.

541

:

It can also change the fat content or the

types of fats that can degrade fats too.

542

:

just being careful to Eat enough

raw, plus enough cooked, just to

543

:

get a variety of different things.

544

:

Sara: the takeaway I got from that.

545

:

And what I want the

listeners to focus on is.

546

:

First, just get the

vegetables and the fiber.

547

:

Just get it in the protein.

548

:

Just get it in your house.

549

:

Just do that first.

550

:

And then look at diversifying,

which I think is great.

551

:

sometimes I focus on that

end, like perfection.

552

:

And it's like, no, just get in the house.

553

:

Just start getting a protein.

554

:

Piece of broccoli in your house

and then focus on the next part.

555

:

Shannon: get so sidetracked.

556

:

It's like I read a really cool statistic.

557

:

You cut your garlic and you

let it sit for 10 minutes.

558

:

It enhanced, the cancer fighting

properties, and then people are

559

:

like, Oh my God, I don't have

10 minutes to let sit there.

560

:

And then they just don't cook the

broccoli at all, and they get sick.

561

:

overwhelmed or the same thing happens when

I've talked with clients about soaking

562

:

and sprouting their grains or their nuts

and seeds or their, beans and legumes.

563

:

And so they get so focused on that,

like piece of it that then they just

564

:

don't eat the food at all versus just

saying Oh, it's still better to eat.

565

:

Some beans that haven't been soaked

than to not have the beans at all.

566

:

or it's so much better to take a 10

minute walk than not taking a walk.

567

:

But I see that a lot too, where people are

like, I didn't have an hour to exercise.

568

:

I'm like, great, do it for 10 minutes.

569

:

But they're just, we are so

all or nothing in this society.

570

:

Sara: I was just going to say that,

like, perfection is the enemy of.

571

:

Progress.

572

:

But what were you going to say, Lacey?

573

:

Lacey: I, as you were talking, I'm

remembering like these quote unquote

574

:

rules that I've heard people say

where they've eliminated something

575

:

or they don't choose it because of

this very minute specific reason.

576

:

So it's Oh, I don't really eat bananas

because they're higher in sugar.

577

:

And I was like, it's still a fruit

that's going to be better for

578

:

you than this and this choice.

579

:

Or, I believe if I remember correctly.

580

:

Carrots have a tendency to, something

with blood sugar, where they, I don't

581

:

know, and then it was like, then we

won't have carrots, and it's no, you

582

:

should still just have the carrot, it's

not a, it's not a hard and fast rule.

583

:

Shannon: Yeah.

584

:

and so much, we have to remember

as much as I love, digging into

585

:

the research around nutrition, but

it's just that it's looking at the

586

:

way people react to foods in a lab.

587

:

It's not looking at how we're

responding in a real world setting.

588

:

And it's also not taking into

account all the bio individuality

589

:

that people have where, if we put.

590

:

Continuous glucose monitor on all three

of us, one of us might respond poorly to

591

:

oatmeal while the other two do just fine.

592

:

And so to make big brash statements

about a food based on a study done

593

:

when we know there's other health

benefits to that food, can be so

594

:

detrimental for people when we start

to limit our diet so drastically.

595

:

I feel like we do this with

macronutrients, to a fault where

596

:

we're like, We are going to take

out all the carbohydrates or all

597

:

the fats or only eat protein.

598

:

And I just think we

only have three of them.

599

:

We only have three macro nutrients.

600

:

Why are we trying to take any of them out?

601

:

Like just enhance them, enhance

the quality, enhance the

602

:

amount, enhance the varieties.

603

:

why are we taking things out when we

really, we evolved to be omnivores.

604

:

We ate lots of different foods.

605

:

Hundreds of thousands of different

types of plants and herbs and

606

:

lots of protein sources, including

insects and, small game and big game.

607

:

we really ate this huge variety

and diversity to survive to this

608

:

point that we're at right now.

609

:

And now we're like limiting

people down to just we only eat.

610

:

Beef, where we only eat chicken.

611

:

I know a lot of clients that

only eat chicken as their

612

:

protein source or only something.

613

:

So yeah, I'm like, let's not limit, let's

expand, let's do lots of variety and make

614

:

it more fun and make it more interesting.

615

:

Sara: I learned this a long time ago

and I haven't figured out a way to

616

:

solve it, but I learned that when

your body is tired, you actually

617

:

crave more like simple sugars.

618

:

Cause it's like something to do with the.

619

:

The tired feeling hormones.

620

:

I don't know what the science.

621

:

yeah, you're exactly right.

622

:

So at seven o'clock at night when I

know I shouldn't be eating anymore,

623

:

but I've done way, I should have done

less in my day and I am exhausted.

624

:

I find myself, almost in a trance

just wanting to eat, chocolate chips.

625

:

it's not nutritious.

626

:

I know it's not, I know I shouldn't

be eating that late for myself.

627

:

it's doing nothing for me except

for, satiating that, I'm exhausted.

628

:

So is that just a matter of me just

not getting myself that exhausted?

629

:

Or is there something I can put in my

pie hole at seven o'clock at night that

630

:

will satiate that, I'm exhausted feeling?

631

:

Shannon: Yeah, I would ask, first

of all, I think the question

632

:

is, does it happen every night?

633

:

much.

634

:

okay.

635

:

That's good.

636

:

So when it happens, because what I was

gonna say, so if it's oh, once a month,

637

:

like I'm not, don't stress about it.

638

:

when people are having cravings

at nighttime, the first thing I

639

:

look at is their morning routine.

640

:

Anything that's going on at night,

I say your bedtime routine does

641

:

not start at 7:00 PM It starts at

7:00 AM It starts when you wake up.

642

:

What's going into your body at breakfast

and lunch that's leading you to still be

643

:

craving something at nighttime, right?

644

:

It could be that you didn't

get enough calories, period.

645

:

Could be that you didn't

get enough carbohydrates.

646

:

It could be that you, Didn't get

enough protein could be that you didn't

647

:

get enough water throughout the day.

648

:

It could be that you are

actually lacking in electrolytes.

649

:

It could also be you

craving the magnesium.

650

:

there's a lot of magnesium and chocolate.

651

:

we also have serotonin levels

that dip throughout the day.

652

:

And sometimes we feel those cravings

later, like in the afternoon, evening,

653

:

I've had some clients who wake up to

eat chocolate in the middle of the

654

:

night because their serotonin is so low.

655

:

And, sometimes, we can

do things about that.

656

:

increasing protein, increasing

foods with tryptophan, which will

657

:

lead to more serotonin in the body.

658

:

So there's a number of reasons

it could be happening, Sara,

659

:

but it's not necessarily bad.

660

:

Just use it as a cue that your

body is telling you something.

661

:

And, make that list of things and look

at what you're eating throughout the day.

662

:

But it starts at 7.

663

:

AM.

664

:

So if you want to curb something

going on at nighttime, it's not

665

:

your dinner you should start with.

666

:

It's your breakfast.

667

:

Sara: gosh, that was like talking

to me for a second where I'm like,

668

:

oh my, that's what I say to clients

when something doesn't feel good.

669

:

I'm like, okay, that's our red flag.

670

:

Okay, let's look at it.

671

:

And yeah, it's no, we

got to look upstream.

672

:

It's oh, we didn't just end up

here magically, like something.

673

:

Happened 10 steps ago to get it.

674

:

Oh my god, that was that was trippy.

675

:

I'm going to take as the takeaways

from this conversation of let's

676

:

listen to our bodies and work

with them, not against them.

677

:

Yes.

678

:

Let's diversify putting foods in our body.

679

:

And by doing that, we're

gifting our future self.

680

:

We are gifting by eating that

healthier protein, fat, delicious,

681

:

like fully packed meal of nutrients.

682

:

We're giving future self

that gift of showing up with

683

:

more energy, feeling better.

684

:

And I like, that you leaned into don't

worry about how you're preparing it.

685

:

Just get the vegetable in your

house, just try some new things.

686

:

don't zoom in so far that you stop

from just doing that first step

687

:

Getting that goodness into your

body and taking care of yourself.

688

:

Shannon: Absolutely.

689

:

Yeah.

690

:

And I always tell clients, I'm like,

health is not like an end destination.

691

:

Like we're always going to be

working towards better health.

692

:

It's a spectrum.

693

:

And your goal is not to get from

point a to point Z it's to get from

694

:

point a to point B to start and

hang out there until that's a habit.

695

:

And then maybe you think about the next

step from there, but like, it's not to

696

:

get from a to Z sustainably do that.

697

:

We would make ourselves totally nuts to

try to take all those steps in one swoop.

698

:

Take a small step today, like just

go home and make a nice lunch.

699

:

If you haven't had lunch

yet and start with that.

700

:

And you are, you're gifting your short

term future self, but you're also gifting

701

:

your long term future self, right?

702

:

You're gifting like your 80 year

old version of yourself, as well

703

:

as your 3 PM version of yourself.

704

:

We really got to like.

705

:

But focus on 3 p.

706

:

m.

707

:

7 p.

708

:

m.

709

:

version of you, not the 80

year old, but you are gifting

710

:

that future person as well.

711

:

Sara: I love that.

712

:

Oh, I love it.

713

:

Thank you so much.

714

:

Lacey, do you have any final thoughts to?

715

:

Lacey: I've just started smiling so big

when you're like, just take a little step.

716

:

And I'm like, yeah, we talk

about that all the time.

717

:

Sara: Yeah.

718

:

It's great.

719

:

I know.

720

:

I've listened to your show.

721

:

I know.

722

:

I know.

723

:

Nailed it.

724

:

Just one.

725

:

It's so true.

726

:

Just one.

727

:

even for me, I'm like, okay, just

add one more thing into my breakfast.

728

:

I don't have to revamp my whole day.

729

:

I'm like, no, I'm just going to put

one healthy thing into my breakfast.

730

:

Add one more thing in.

731

:

so I love that.

732

:

Feels very doable.

733

:

Thank you so much for

joining us today, Shannon.

734

:

It was wonderful to hear your expertise.

735

:

So happy to be here.

736

:

Lacey: Thanks

737

:

Shannon: for having me.

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About the Podcast

Show artwork for No Shame in Our Game
No Shame in Our Game
Where Self-Help Meets Community Support

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About your hosts

Profile picture for Sara Kelly

Sara Kelly

Sara runs Your Aligned Home as a Home Management Consultant. Translation- let's get your home running smoother so you have time for the things you love!
Her combination of optimizing systems, a compassionate ear, and the desire to help others led her to this work.
Although she helps with all things inside the home, any free time is spent outside the home. She usually has dirt under her nails and a hat on her head ready to be outdoors.
Don't ask this gal for perfection, that is not her jam. She is in it to spark joy one home at a time and let the goodness ripple from there!
Profile picture for Lacey Tomlinson

Lacey Tomlinson

Lacey Tomlinson transforms life's messiest moments into meaningful connections. As a mother, entrepreneur, and chronic illness advocate, she founded the Joyful Support Movement after her own health journey forced her to rebuild her life authentically. Through podcasts, courses, and community building, Lacey helps others navigate their "messy middle" without shame or perfection, because she believes everyone deserves genuine support. Her philosophy? "Life's better when we stop pretending and just embrace the plot." With master's degrees in Communication and Instructional Design, she combines professional expertise with raw human experience to create spaces where vulnerability is celebrated, authentic stories are shared, and people find the support they need.